Today I want to talk about two articles related to Israeli Jews and to Palestinians that set me back on my heels and scratching my head. My surprise is undoubtedly due to my woeful ignorance of these two Peoples and their history. Hopefully some more enlightened readers will help clear up my confusion.
Israeli Jews confuse me
The source of my confusion comes from yesterday’s Jerusalem Post and relates to a recent poll:
The poll, which was conducted jointly by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah, also found that over 80% of the Palestinians support turning to the UN to obtain recognition of a Palestinian state. The survey was supported by the Ford Foundation Cairo office and the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung in Ramallah and Jerusalem.
How would you expect Israeli Jews to respond when asked what Israel should do if the UN does recognize a state of Palestine based on the pre-1967 borders? I expected that they overwhelmingly reject the UN’s decision. But I would be wrong or maybe I’m not wrong. Please read the following poll results and I think you’ll understand my confusion:
In the face of UN recognition of a Palestinian state, 69% of Israelis thought that Israel should accept the decision and either start negotiations with the Palestinians about its implementation (34%) or not allow any change on the ground by the Palestinians (35%); 16% said Israel should oppose the decision and intensify the construction in the settlements; 7% think that Israel should annex the PA territory to Israel; and 4% think Israel should invade the PA territories and use force to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Maybe I am confused because I don’t know how to read poll results. So, can someone explain to me how 69% of the Israelis polled could say that Israel should accept the UN’s decision while 35% don’t want to see any changes on the ground and 16% want to intensify construction in the settlements and 7% want to annex PA territory to Israel and 4% want to invade the PA territories and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. If my math is correct, 62% of the Israeli respondents are either moderately or strongly against any alteration of the current borders. So, how is it possible that 69% think Israel should accept the UN decision? Am I the only one confused by these poll results?
Okay, let’s now talk about the Palestinian Authority (PA) and their quest for the UN to recognize Palestine as a state. Now, just for kicks and giggles, let’s assume that the State of Palestine is recognized by the UN tomorrow and let’s further assume that Obama does not veto the UN resolution.
Surprise! Palestine would only be for some Palestinians
A measure of how naive I am, I assumed that if Mahmud Abbas was successful in gaining recognition of a new state of Palestine that all Palestinians, wherever they are currently living, would be welcomed to their new homeland and would immediately become citizens of Palestine in the same way that Jews from around the world were allowed to freely immigrate to the new state of Israel years ago. Silly me. Mahmud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority are not the least bit interested in allowing Palestinian refugees to become citizens of a new state of Palestine. From this source we learn the following:
…the PLO’s ambassador to Lebanon, Abdullah Abdullah, gave the Lebanese Daily Starlast week:
The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state…
This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”
Abdullah said that the new Palestinian state would “absolutely not” be issuing Palestinian passports to refugees…
“When we have a state accepted as a member of the United Nations, this is not the end of the conflict. This is not a solution to the conflict. This is only a new framework that will change the rules of the game.”
The Palestinian Liberation Organization would remain responsible for refugees, and Abdullah says that UNRWA would continue its work as usual.
What is the UNRWA? This is what Wikipedia tells us:
United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is a relief and human development agency, providing education, health care, social services and emergency aid to 5 million[2] Palestine refugees living in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, as well as in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It is the only agency dedicated to helping refugees from a specific region or conflict. It is separate from UNHCR,[3] the UN Refugee Agency, which is the only other UN agency aiding refugees, dedicated to aiding all refugees in the world.
So this is Mahmud Abbas’ plan for peace with Israel? Five million Palestinian refugees will not be welcome in the new state of Palestine but will be used as pawns to further his plan to destroy Israel. The plan of Abbas and the PA is that these five million refugees should be able to resettle inside of Israel because that is where the original refugees came from.
How’s that for a plan for peace?
Well, that’s what I’m thinking. What are your thoughts?
Asylum Watch 
The Middle East is a madhouse, and we should flee from it.
We should stand by our ally Israel, but I caution people against fetishizing the nation. On the issue of Israel, many Americans are trying to be “more Catholic than the Pope.”
Israel is not a homogeneous society. You have righties, lefties, Arabs, Jews, agnostics, atheists, communists and people who are just plain ol’ irreligious. It is also full of those who think appeasing their enemies is the way to go.
“Palestine” is the real nuthouse. I understand their strategy perfectly. The refugees are a propaganda tool, and granting them citizenship wrecks that. Recognition as a state is not the end, but just the beginning of their dream to extirpate the Jewish people that Hell’s half-acre known as the Middle East.
These are primitive people. Interacting with them can only drag into the sewer our modern, enlightened, civilized culture.
I find the Palestinian strategy with the refugees disgusting. The pacifist attitude of some Israeli I just can not rationalize in my head. I try to put myself in their place but I guess I’m just not that forgiving.
In truth, I doubt there is an answer to this issue. Children brought up to hate, will do that. Last I heard, over 50 percent of the young people in Palestine are unemployed.They have nothing else to do but to let their anger fester against Israel. Israel has her issues as well. I support Israel, but her hands are not clean either.I cannot condone what was done to Lebanon. They had thriving cosmopolitan cities such as Beirut, with a large Christian population.The second time Israel blasted the country back into the third world, she lost a bit of my support. I know I have stepped on the third rail. Less than 100 percent support of Israel always upsets many Conservatives.
I haven’t checked the numbers for a long time, but 50% unemployment is about right. They are all on the dole.
Israel went into Lebanon allied with the Christian forces in the civil war. PLO attacked Israel from Lebanon. If you recall, US was also involved in 82.
I am thinking of the later “war”…2007 or 8 when Beirut had been rebuilt finally.I certainly do not place any blame on Israel which was/is under constant attack. My issue is/was decimating the cities. I had relatives who worked in Lebanon, and were very disheartened by the destruction who otherwise are most supportive of Israel. The cluster bombs left behind have left a good portion uninhabitable as reported to me.
It was in summer 06. Shortly before my wedding, so I remember. 🙂 Hizballah was shelling Israeli north, so the IDF went in to root them out. Hizballah then launched Katyushas on Haifa in central Israel. They can do no such thing without holding the territory, which, I understand, they will do next time.
IDF used cluster bombs in an effort to prevent firing of Katyushas that were launched from “civilian” areas. IDF also say that it’s the sole most effective way to prevent it. I don’t know enough about military strategy to make a judgment about it. I do know that they are now testing cluster bombs that self-destruct if not explode right away.
I think the main problem with Beirut’s once thriving culture is the low fertility of Lebanese Christian women combined with the increased radicalization of the Muslim population. I’m not sure the former can be reversed.
I don’t get upset, Bunker. I appreciate your honesty.
Most Israelis are doves (as opposed to hawks), but reality keeps banging on their door.
Truth is, if PLO or whatever other terrorist outfit that’s running the land to the East would decide they want peace with Israel, there would be peace in the Middle East tomorrow.
I hear what your saying, Edge, and I don’t doubt what you say is true, but, I’m still scratching my head.
Well, part of it is Stockholm syndrome. And as Matt pointed out, polls are imprecise. You don’t know how they got people to agree to their statements.
As I mentioned to Steve, I worry that the UN wants to insert themselves as the “peace keepers”.
As for the poll, you always need to look at the internals. Out pollsters have been caught so many times playing with the sample to get a predetermined response, that I almost don’t even pay attention to them anymore. It is possible that Silverfiddle is right, but I never trust polling data. As Da Tech Guy puts it, they are not polls, they are psyops.
Well, the poll was funded by the Ford Foundation so you may have a point.
they are not polls, they are psyops.
I like that formulation!
“If my math is correct, 62% of the Israeli respondents are either moderately or strongly against any alteration of the current borders. So, how is it possible that 69% think Israel should accept the UN decision?”–Obviously, they polled 131% of the population of Israel.
Regarding Palestinian citizenship, the PLO represents Palestinian refugees around the world. However, Palestinian statehood would in time cause there to be elections–elections the PLO would lose to Hamas (just as they did last time). By not giving these people citizenship, the PLO keeps some degree of of credibility as the only official representative of the Palestinian people, and is able to control the flow of money from the international community. If you recall, Arafat got quite wealthy from skimming off this money. Abbas is more interested at the moment in defeating Hamas than he is in defeating Israel.
Good point on the PLO, John. Thanks.
It certainly doesn’t seem like a peace plan to me and I don’t think the Palestinians really want peace.
The scary thing, Steve, is it looks to me that the UN is maneuvering to become the “peace keepers” by inserting themselves into both Israel and the Palestinian territories.
I question the veracity of that poll given that it was a joint venture with the Palestinians themselves.
The poll is obviously flawed. The numbers just don’t add up.
This is why I don’t post on Israel, because I’m pretty ignorant on this issue. Heck, after living in Knoxville for 8 years, I can only now grasp the entanglements of local small-town TN politics. I know I can’t figure out what is going on in a completely different culture half way around the world.
One thing I noticed was mention of the Ford Foundation, a bankster social engineering operation. The banksters also run the UN, so I would start by seeing who is funding what-something tells me that they’re all tied up in this mess.
Another thought.. would the US support Israel if King Ahab and Queen Jezebel were running things, complete with human sacrifices to Baal and the like? God is not always pleased with Israel and while we know that they are a nation in the end-times, doesn’t mean they will be in “God’s will” also at that time. So this stuff confuses me as well.
Yeah, the involvement of the Ford Foundation raised my eye brows as well.
While living in Paris, I met Israelis who were so tired of the fight that they told me they would give away more land and allow a PA state if only they could settle down and stop being attacked. Woefully naive, in my opinion, but how can anyone blame them for wanting peace? The naive part is that peace is never going to happen. The Saudis keep the PA’s just mad enough with indoctrination against the JEws to where they pick the scab of Israel every so often, just like the Saudis like it……..
Your comments at Silverfiddle’s are always so smart they’re a joy for me to read, thanks.
Hi, Z, Thanks for coming by and thanks for your input. Your point is well taken. There will be no peace until the Arabs decide that they want peace. I’ll never understand that kind of hate.
Thanks for your kind words, Z. I hope you visit Conservatives on Fire often. The more voices the better.